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  #1  
Old 05-04-2010, 07:56 PM
Traczewska Traczewska is offline
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Default To fanni: hmm..

First, let me say, that the description of 1st may reality included in my note is strictly based on the quotation from:

http://www.thevisitor.pl/index.php?id=420

I didn't mention the source originally because made some changes and didn't want to confuse the original author..

But, of cource, the main reason I quoted above description was that my personal experience was simply the same.
Remember the fear of my parents who were punished for not attending the 1st May March.. Director cut their salaries and left the "bad mark" in their papers..

furthermore, remember myself explaining the reason of my absence to the director of my school who told me that as the only one who "escaped" from the 1st May duty I'd be expelled from the school.. I was 16 then..

so please.. limit your optimistic look back to the communist era.. For the firrst time in my life sb try to explain me that the Russia during that time was the oasis of freedom and human rights..
Even when you've manage to lived one on the lonely island in the pure abstraction of others' experience, accept that others lived with the eyes wide opened, as for example I did..

Professionally I am a documentary producer, made many films recalling communist times.. it gave me the experience, knowledge and responsibility in spreading informations in public.. wouldn't dare to write sth I wouldn't be sure about or not experienced by my own..

and the proof which you demand is easy to found.. take any book on that period.. almost any.. watch any documentary.. or just: don't - You may discover things which you probably won't like.. dreams and illusions are the strongest friend of peaceful soul..

with regards, agn
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  #2  
Old 05-04-2010, 08:54 PM
fanni fanni is offline
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Smile thank you!

Dear Madam Traczewska,

thank you very much for your answer!

I am very pleased to see a smart, intelligent person who knows how to express her opinion, especially on a subtle subject like this.

(http://www.thevisitor.pl/index.php?id=420)

I have read the information, and, to my surprise, I did not see the author of this text. Well, never mind him/her, anyway…
I was not talking about this.

>>”I didn't mention the source originally because made some changes and didn't want to confuse the original author..”
Perhaps you should have mentioned it because in that case I would not have asked certain questions in my comment.

>> “…my personal experience was simply the same. …”

I sympathize with you and your family!

But you did not say whether you lived in the USSR.
I suspect you did not…
I can not say anything whatsoever concerning the situation in Poland of those times… so regarding this, I completely rely on your knowledge, experience and opinion.
I will be talking only about life in the USSR.

“>>.. limit your optimistic look back to the communist era..”

I have not got any sort of optimistic look when I recall those USSR times. There were bad things and good things. Nothing is perfect under the Sun.
In fact, I have always been a pessimist and have never believed either the Communist Party of the USSR, nor the current politicians. All of them are made of the same kidney.

I would not have stated that the situation was different if I had not had quite an opposite life experience as compared to yours.

My parents (they are quite old now) have witnessed the times of Stalin, the times of “our dear Leonid Ilyich Brezhnev” (LOL)… I witnessed only part of the “Brezhnev era”, though ;-)

So I will talk only about “the Brezhnev era” – something which I know.

As far as I can remember, my parents and my grandmother (my grandfather had died long before I was born) always used to laugh at the Communist Party and the USSR Communist leaders, but my family (including myself) did not suffer any punishment for that.

My parents’ salary was regularly increased, we received a free apartment from the government…
Although my father has never been either a pioneer or a member of Komsomol or the CP, nobody cared about that.

When a CP leader suggested that my mother join the CP, my mother refused under a crazy pretext that she hates sitting at meetings! LOL
Nobody suffered as a consequence… More than that, she became a “little” boss some time later.
She also visited some countries: Hungary, Czechoslovakia, Cuba. (All this was before 1971)

At school I did not go to May Day and the 1917 October Revolution demonstrations (others participated in them if they wanted to) because I just did not want to go, and I only brought to my teachers at school a message from my parents that I was ill at that time :-) (an innocent pretext to stay at home and read books)

Of course, the CP members and Komsomol leaders were obliged to go to such demonstrations. But being a CP member or Komsomol leader also brought many benefits! Like, for example, raise of salary, opportunity to travel to “Capitalist” countries etc.

I have two elder cousins: both of them were students in the middle of 70s-beginning of 80s. Once they went to a May Day demonstration but later they refused: it was a waste of their time. Nobody suffered. They continued to receive their scholarships. Nobody even scolded them… let alone forbidding to take exams!

Oh… I finished school in 1984 ;-)

Concerning the Stalin era in the USSR… I think I can remember only one episode with my grandfather who was half-Polish by origin and moved to Moscow from Grodno with his family after the October Revolution of 1917.
His family name (so is my mother’s family name) was Wołotowski, and he was from a noble family with a long history (a Polish TE member to whom I told about my grandfather said that it may be the name of the Polish nobility coat of Samson).
Before the WWII during the numerous repressions in the reign of Stalin my grandfather got scared and shortened his name to simply Wolotov. After Stalin’s death he “recovered” is full family name back.

>>” For the first time in my life sb try to explain me that the Russia during that time was the oasis of freedom and human rights.. “

No way, Madam :-)
Did I say it was an oasis? It was not.
But at least parents were not afraid to let their children walk alone in the evenings, and they did not come to schools to take their little children back home… They were not afraid that their children may be killed, raped or kidnapped…

Nothing is perfect under the Sun, I say it again.

>>”Even when you've manage to lived one on the lonely island in the pure abstraction of others' experience.. “

Unfortunately, as my job presupposes everyday communicating /work with people I simply can not live on an imaginary island with pink abstract thoughts about the Past, Present and the Future
:-) My students won’t let me do that!

>>”Professionally I am a documentary producer, made many films recalling communist times.. it gave me the experience, knowledge and responsibility in spreading informations in public..“

I am very glad to have talked (although through the cyber space) with such an interesting person.
I respect your opinion, and I hope you understand mine, too :-)
If you like you can use my words (mentioned above) in one of your stories.. should these words be of any interest to you.

>>”and the proof which you demand is easy to found.. take any book on that period.. “

Oh, I read a lot of books! But how many of them can be trusted? ;-)
For example, do you trust “The Committee of 300”?....... quite a curious book with loads of facts, by the way!

>>…”peaceful soul..”

This is what I’ve been trying to reach – peace and harmony of mind, heart and soul.

Wishing you the same!

Thank you for taking your time.

sincerely yours,
Elena

Last edited by fanni; 05-04-2010 at 09:01 PM.
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  #3  
Old 05-04-2010, 08:55 PM
Merline Merline is offline
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Default Gosh

Well, Elena, I know myself a fair amount of people who experienced those times...and I do find your reaction rather on the ludicrous side. I support Agn in this a 100%.

Best regards,

Michèle
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  #4  
Old 05-04-2010, 09:08 PM
fanni fanni is offline
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Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Merline View Post
Well, Elena, I know myself a fair amount of people who experienced those times...and I do find your reaction rather on the ludicrous side. I support Agn in this a 100%.

Best regards,

Michèle
Thanks for your interest, Michèle!

May I ask you: did you live in the USSR?
Did you work in the USSR?
Did you go to a Soviet school?

I have the right to express my opinion because I know those times very well. I live and work here. And I graduated here, too.

Regards,
Elena
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  #5  
Old 05-04-2010, 09:53 PM
emka emka is offline
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Default Hi,

Hi, I was born in 1946, so I spent in Communist time in Poland more than forty years - and I think that the note is exaggerated. I was only once in school on the 1 May demonstration, just of curiosity, after that it was for me a waste of beautiful time and I didn't go anymore. I wasn't punished by any means, even the "behaviour" mark was not lowered. During my time in the Warsaw University (I graduated in 1970) I wouldn't even think about going and no one of my friends went. I haven't heard about not being able to pass exams. Also when I worked in the biggest Polish publishing house, PWN, some people were going, me and my close friends never went. My father worked in a Finance Ministery, was also executive, since 1945 till 1980, and never went to demonstrations. He was not a member of a Party, so wasn't obliged.
Of course, it may depend on the town, where one worked and so on.. the experiences can be different. It can be also different earlier, just after the war, in the ZMP times. But MY experience is that I was never forced to do something I didn't like. On the other hand, there were some more subtle ways - for instance one could fear that would not get passport when would like to go abroad - it was very common.

Warm regards

Malgorzata
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