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  #31  
Old 11-15-2004, 04:36 AM
Homerhomer Homerhomer is offline
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Default Re: Are we afraid to be honest?

Tavo wrote:
"Peter, you are right, I understand you, you remind me myself more than month ago. I agree with you that this excellent site is far from perfect, that too many contributions have a different purpose than generally declared goals of the site, many are hardly tolerable with their frequency. IMO you pointed out the main problem, I also feel it this way and recently raised my voice maybe even more radically.
Curtis, you are also right when calling for higher tolerance and showing some different possible attitudes. But you also repeated Peterís thoughts in another words and presented them as your own, opposing to Peterís, and opposed to some which he didnít pronounce, and didnít resist your permanent temptation to teach others on the values and joys of communication and even on the basics of the social behavior - you really use to do it and it might be rightly perceived as irritating and offending. Needless to say about your judgements on who and why is not welcomed here. Peterís reactions are understandable.
Gal, Ebbe and Rinnie, your position is also understandable. I also agree that Curtis is one of the best critiquers here, but this doesnít justify what I indicated above. So please, try to look at the exchange of views also from the other side, before you stand up in one formation to defend honor of your club member.
Peter, sorry, now I am out of time, so about my understanding of your ideas (really not very new ones) and my way to solve those issues - next time. Save your fun!"

Well, there probably was some misunderstanding, written words sometimes lack the expressions you can get from face to face conversations, don't know if that's the case here, part of it maybe the problem.
I understand that many of you think very highly of Curtis and his accomplishments on this site, none of that I will try to diminish or deny, I however wasn't answering to him based on his accomplishments but based on what he said to me in this particular thread, since I sensed a bit of sarcasm in his statements I really don't have a problem returning it back.
Peter
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  #32  
Old 11-15-2004, 05:56 AM
kinginexile kinginexile is offline
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Default Re: Are we afraid to be honest?

I just want to add i did not mean what i said as putting down people. It was just a realization, though i must say that having a simple phone connection(not DSL or the fast one), does limit my ability to cover the site to correctly appraise who and how many critiques are based on being constructive and not just lauding a pix.
I think Adam is not in the business of coercing people to act according to rules, rightly so, as all of us are adults and don't need to be told over and over. It's not easy to direct an internet site, it tends to take a life of its own. Almost like a classroom with the teacher absent once he gave the copy subject!
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  #33  
Old 11-15-2004, 08:57 AM
cgrindahl cgrindahl is offline
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Default Re: Are we afraid to be honest?

My comments weren't directed specifically at you Peter. I was simply expressing my own thoughts about a subject that keeps coming up. If I take your comment simply as an invitation for all of us to take the risk to be more honest in sharing responses to images posted by fellow members, I can add my applause. It is what I try to do in all of my critiques. These conversations, however, seem to bring out frustrations for those whose work receives little attention while photos of less than stellar quality receive a great deal of attention. Then the argument turns to changing posting rules or decrying the critiquing behavior of fellow members. This is the conversation that strikes me as silly. And your comment that suggests the board is better without cliques, is also silly Peter. There are people who congregate because they speak French. There are people who are enamored with shooting film and producing black and white images exclusively. There are folks who are enthralled with urban scenes, who wouldn't dream of spending time critiquing landscape scenes. And there are folks who love landscape scenes that think industrial shots belong on TrekLens rather than TrekEarth. In my opinion, it is precisely the coming together of folks with common interests that makes this site so successful. And interests of those who come to this site are very diverse.

My earlier comment is still germane. In your Intro you invite critiques of whatever kind. That is a good beginning. You also have been writing critiques and doing a very fine job of it I note from having read a few. The last piece of the puzzle for you, if you want more expansive critiques, is to identify those members who are inclined to give some time to their comments. I noted that you commented on an image posted by a member who has posted 35 photos and 9 critiques. He won't likely take the time to look at your photos, let alone write a thoughtful critique, if his past behavior is any indication. You would do much better to note who is active in writing critiques and cultivate those folks. They're all over the place. More often than not they're the folks who've been sticking around posting photos. Adam encourages folks to reciprocate when given a critique. I believe that is fine etiquette. If you find folks whose work you appreciate, and who are inclined to give thoughtful critiques, start critiquing those folks photos. I can almost guarantee you that you'll be getting the kind of critiques you wish to see by taking that course.

(continuesÖ)
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  #34  
Old 11-15-2004, 08:58 AM
cgrindahl cgrindahl is offline
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Default Re: Are we afraid to be honest?

(continuesÖ)

I'm inclined to give a great deal of slack to the behavior of folks on this board. The general tone of exchanges here is both friendly and respectful. I assume that folks who stick around are getting what they need from being here, and giving what they are able to give in return. I love the simple expressions of appreciation I receive from folks whose English is limited, but who make comments anyway, as much as I appreciate the thoughtful assessment of my work by someone whose work I respect and whose opinion is offered as a friend.

Enjoy yourself Peter. Your images are fine and you offer thoughtful critiques. If you chose to stick around TE, Iíve no doubt that you will give and receive much from your participation.
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  #35  
Old 11-15-2004, 04:00 PM
Homerhomer Homerhomer is offline
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Default Re: Are we afraid to be honest?

Cgrindhal wrote:
"My comments weren't directed specifically at you Peter. I was simply expressing my own thoughts about a subject that keeps coming up. If I take your comment simply as an invitation for all of us to take the risk to be more honest in sharing responses to images posted by fellow members, I can add my applause. "
Indeed Curtis, I thought they were directed at me hense my response and misunderstanding. My whole point was what you so eloquently present in one sentense above, an invitation to take more risk in sharing responses.

I agree that my assumption about subgroubs etc is not reasonable, smaller groups like this will exist for all the good reasons you mention, and some not so good, fact of life.

Thanks for all other suggestions, I am still trying to find my way around here and see how everything works.
Peter
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  #36  
Old 11-15-2004, 06:10 PM
mdchachi mdchachi is offline
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Default Re: Are we afraid to be honest?

> I am still trying to find my way around here and see how everything works.

In case you haven't discovered it yet, take a look at the lists feature which was created to help us keep track of other members. You could, for example, keep a list of "honest critiquers."
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  #37  
Old 11-15-2004, 09:47 PM
Mrgud Mrgud is offline
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Default Re: Are we afraid to be honest?

Count on me in this also! :))
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  #38  
Old 11-15-2004, 10:48 PM
cgrindahl cgrindahl is offline
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Default Re: Are we afraid to be honest?

Just wanted to thank Gal, Ebbe and Rinie for giving me the "Good Housekeeping Seal of Approval." ;-)

As I said, there are many very fine folks hanging out here. I'm in good company.
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  #39  
Old 11-16-2004, 02:34 PM
verge verge is offline
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Default Re: Are we afraid to be honest?

I just hope something have been concluded on this thread that will continue to improve TE. i am a month old in TE am I may say i believe i have improve the way i look a picture thru reading critique and receiving them as well. i have also created new friends because of TE

well i just couldn't help but to say my piece in this thread or probably a summary of all responses. its funny how we say we don't have much time but this thread surely ate lots of the time of TE member who visit the forum regularly. am sure co'z am one of them :-)

1. Opossing Peter - everybody is entitled to say they wanna say to any photo they want to critique. we cannot judge them if they are honest or not its their own opinion and how they look at the photo and remember beauty is in the eye of the beholder so we cannot say beautiful to me is beautiful for you as well
2. Peter's side - we need to give quality critique, honest about what we see and not holding back that is not good in this way we will continue to help others to improve and have a quality photo in TE
3. we just need to understand other like me. sometime i just could not put a word to appreciate the photo but by just saying WOW! there are a lot of people who are articulate as others
4. those who rarely check photo of other or being picky lets start checking them and provide inputs. who know we might find them useful for us as well someday
5. for those good reviewer/critiquer continue to influence other to do the same am sure there will be more members that will be joining wanting to share their photo and wanting to learn more about the world and about photography

hehe i hope i have summarized it all and hope everybody who reads this thread had something good to learn and share to others....brgds

I'd like to thank Mike now i know how to use the create/edit list hehe
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  #40  
Old 11-16-2004, 05:06 PM
Homerhomer Homerhomer is offline
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Default Re: Are we afraid to be honest?

verge wrote:
" hope everybody who reads this thread had something good to learn and share to others"

I hope so too, you have made many good points.
Peter
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