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  #1  
Old 02-01-2004, 12:24 AM
c_kyr c_kyr is offline
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Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 17
Default Suggestion

I would like to suggest a change in the memebrs view:
I wish there was a way to sort members by their different attributes. For example I would like to sort them by their points.
I would also like to filter them. For example I would like to see all members from my country and then sort them in a way.
I would like to hear the administrators opinion on that.

Thank you
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  #2  
Old 02-01-2004, 08:08 AM
flip89 flip89 is offline
TE Junior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 137
Default Re: Suggestion

Hi C! (1) There is only one administrator of TE, believe it or not, and that is the amazing Adam.
(2) While classifying members under their points is a good suggestion, this has been discussed to death, and the consensus is, this site is not a competition site therefore points while important for many member's well-being, are not the main issue of the site ... critiquing and learning is.
(3) You CAN see members from a particularly country .. by clicking on members and clicking on country in the top country column. By clicking country, the countries will appear in alphabetical order. You will see Greece in pp 40 - 42 with close to 60 members.
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  #3  
Old 02-01-2004, 11:48 AM
c_kyr c_kyr is offline
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Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 17
Default Re: Suggestion

Although I agree that TE is not a competitive site and the only onterest of the memebrs should not be their points, I do not see the reason the points classification would make the place competitive.
As far as the country filtering is concerned I believe that the current way of doing it is rather difficult and certainly not user-friendly (as most parts of this site are).

Finally, I did not know that there is only one administrator in this fantastic site. So well done Adam! You are great!
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  #4  
Old 02-01-2004, 07:33 PM
BobTrips BobTrips is offline
TE Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 817
Default Points and competition...

Having been here a while I've had the opportunity to see how points move the focus from sharing to competing.

We've had people register under multiple member names in order to award their own photos more points.

We have discussions from time to time as to the best time of day to post, best type of image to post, etc. in order to get the most attention (points).

We've had people become upset because their point total decreased when someone left or someone's meaningless 'critiques' were deleted by Adam.

And,what I consider the largest tragedy of the point system, we have people who write 20 critiques per day, and only 20 critiques because their real goal is to give points to their friends.
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  #5  
Old 02-02-2004, 12:45 AM
Fenwicker Fenwicker is offline
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Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 15
Default Re: Points and competition...

Wow...just found out about the point system....Don't know if I like it or not...but it does give me a little incentive to do better..I guess....
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  #6  
Old 02-02-2004, 01:19 AM
BobTrips BobTrips is offline
TE Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 817
Default Re: Points and competition...

The point system isn't a real way to judge your work. Some people give points for strange reasons or even no reason at all ("Just want to make people feel good.")

I've seen 'nothing special' pictures receive very high point ratings and (IMO) absolutely wonderful, unique, well-crafted images receive almost no points. Lots of times scores are more about where the picture was taken or who took the picture than about the quality of the work. (I turned off the point system long ago.)

Best you pay attention to carefully written Critiques, both those given to your images and to those of others. There are some very helpful and knowledgeable people who post here and take time to write Critiques that are full of useful information and to post Workshops that illustrate their ideas.
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  #7  
Old 02-02-2004, 02:11 PM
joseelias joseelias is offline
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Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 871
Default Re: Points and competition...

"And,what I consider the largest tragedy of the point system, we have people who write 20 critiques per day, and only 20 critiques because their real goal is to give points to their friends."

Bob I can't understand something. You defend the creation of a group system, in order to divide TE in several smaller comunities, and in where Friends/Members would critique the work of each other. But now you're criticizing those who look at the work of their Friends/Favorite members and critique their photos! And you're accusing them of doing that only to give points? I don't understand...

Why? Because they do give points while critiquing the photos? If there's a TOS violation you should report that to Adam with the names of the members and not throw suspitious over the other members! That would be the correct thing to do.

Adam would take care of the issue in a great way as he allways does.

I do write 20 critiques per day, mainly because it's a way to control my participation in TE and a way to retribute the courtesy to those who critique my photos (I guess that's "legal" because it's in the Critiquing Guidelines). When I have "spare" critiques (wich I really like) I look at other people photos and critique them until I get 20 critiques. It's only a personal rule and not some Mafia scheme...

Unfortunatly I cannot spend more time at TE and dont't have much time to do WS, so I chose my way of participating until it get's illegal.

As I said, report that to Adam, and if I'm the list I accept the consequencies. What I don't like is that you're creating a suspitious environment on TE over all those who accept the point system with all it's faults but also benefits.
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  #8  
Old 02-02-2004, 07:08 PM
BobTrips BobTrips is offline
TE Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 817
Default Re: Points and competition...

"You defend the creation of a group system, in order to divide TE in several smaller communities, and in where Friends/Members would critique the work of each other."

No, I'm not pushing for Groups, but I do feel a need to reduce the number of photographs (and members) that appear on my screen each day. I want to recreate the feeling of community that we had back 6-12 months ago.

I'm trying to create a loose group by including those people who tend to give me thoughtful Critiques on my 'Favorite' list (I wish it had a different name). I won't leave someone on my list who ceases to write thoughtful (positive or negative) comments.

This system is totally personal. There are people who really don't want to hear anything negative about their pictures. They could use the same system to form a loosely organized group of 'positive' members.

I've set up a link to my Favorite Gallery and go to those images when I feel like writing Critiques. (I've also set up a link to 'Uncritiqued' and go there next. Last, I go to the Asia Gallery.)

Now, back to my intended meaning. We have had, probably currently have, members whose main purpose of writing Critiques is to give their friends points. They only write the minimum number of words necessary to clear Adam's screen. And they write fairly meaningless Critiques. No, not Critiques, praise statements.

I'd like you to take some time and go back and read the '20 critiques per day' that you've written. Now, I'm making no judgment here - I haven't, nor do I intend to, review your posts. But read some and ask yourself "Have I said something potentially useful about this photograph? Or have I simply said the equivalent of "Good Picture" and/or repeated something that someone else has said?"

Perhaps you are capable of writing 20 quality Critiques per day. If so, great! But I'm pretty sure that would make you an exceptional member, not the typical person who gives out their 40 daily point allowance and quits.
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  #9  
Old 02-03-2004, 02:10 AM
joseelias joseelias is offline
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Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 871
Default Re: Points and competition...

"Have I said something potentially useful about this photograph?"

Bob, I believe when we make a praise critique pointing out what's good on the photo that's a useful critique! We don't learn only with mistakes but also when we know what we've done well. If a photo is good it should be praised.

More in the TOS it's clearly stated that when a praise is made the reasons should be pointed out. And I do that. Aswering your question yes I do useful critiques. Not the best in the world but still I believe their useful. Some are better that others. But usually I do make improvments sugestions. Some deeper than the others.

Many times too, I lack the knowledge to make deeper critiques in some members, wich some are between the best in TE concerning photographic skills. Should I shut up and not point what I feel it's good on their photos? I feel that by your standards good photographs would be ignored. Like, "that's a good photo so there's nothing to say"...

"I simply said the equivalent of "Good Picture" and/or repeated something that someone else has said?"

When several members say the same thing in a critique to a photo of mine I find that useful. It reinforces that the critique is fair I many times make me change my opinion when at first I don't agree with it. So I don't mind saying the same as others... More I don't read the others critiques before I write my own.

But if you ask me what is best, if it's my "20 not usually exceptional critiques per day", or the 2 or 3 good critiques posted time to time by others, in a universe of hundreds of photos posted per day I believe that that the latest are not more useful than the first...

To end I now believe the group system could be useful under some terms and options which I allready expressed to Adam. And I really wish it gets into production...
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