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  #11  
Old 08-08-2006, 04:26 PM
jinju jinju is offline
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Default Re: Why so few people shots from N America and Europe?

the cool thing about wide angles is that if you want the person on the side then you can get clos and point the camera away from them and still get them in the frame:) They wouldnt have any idea. With a 50mm you cant use such tricks:)
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  #12  
Old 08-08-2006, 04:40 PM
Furachan Furachan is offline
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Default Re: Why so few people shots from N America and Europe?

The Japanese really dislike to be photographed by strangers for the most part. Don't forget 97% of the people I photograph don't really know they're in the oicture or do their Japanese best to "ignore" it until i go away. More than once I was caught and the lok I got was one of fury, sheer, unadulterated rage. I do not buy the notion that shooting people in japan is a piece of cake...you may manage to be ignored if you play your cards right but you will not enjoy the straight looks that you do get I can tell you...
SOmetime you can ask cute girls in kimonos selling cell phones or giving ot leaflets to pose for you and they'll smile but...how interesting is that really.
No Vietnam, Laos, Cambodia, Thailand are far easier (Hong Kong too) than Tokyo. I have simply learned to shoot as invisibly as I can - shoting "against the grain" so to speak. and there is strain associated with that...;o)
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  #13  
Old 08-09-2006, 03:24 AM
jinju jinju is offline
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Default Re: Why so few people shots from N America and Europe?

I didnt say it was easy. I said that I disagree with the professional who said you need long lenses to shoot people in Asia. Which is totally bogus.
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  #14  
Old 08-09-2006, 08:07 AM
kinginexile kinginexile is offline
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Default Re: Why so few people shots from N America and Europe?

who was he, Rafal? Hard to think a professional photographer would speak like an amateur, because this is really what makes the big difference between a newbie/tourist and a pro/seasoned shooter (at least a seasoned travel/street photographer, maybe this guy shoots indoor portraits on command): not to rely on distance and zooms, unless the compo demands it and you are not shooting an individual, but a "scene" with someone in it, or a decisive moment that needs tell us very little about the person shot.

The more I think about this question the more I think a lot has to do with our own psychological make-up, our own hang-ups about people, about "the other".

Sure, there are some places where it's easier than others, but that does not deliver always the greatest shots either. Basically if we have to think "will they let me take the shot..Should I....will they see me... I wonder if... etc....", the shot is gone, nada. You have to shoot before you think, and I believe the great street photographers do just that, and they actually say that much, but you have a few who want some kind of sure confrontation with their subjects, they want to see how people will react to the camera, or if people will take up the challenge of being pointed at and respond to it.

Likewise, photographers must have the greatest empathy, curiosity, and sincerity towards people. Because people can sense that respect, and will accept it, and welcome you. It can take some kind of invisible vibes, or spending time around them before shooting, but if you are detached emotionally, you may be a pro sure enough, but I promise you you shall never leave your 9 to 5 job, because truly, photography will be a job, a skill, and that's all... (which is not bad! :-) )
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  #15  
Old 08-09-2006, 02:41 PM
Furachan Furachan is offline
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Default Re: Why so few people shots from N America and Europe?

Absolutely correct - short lenses and MOVE IN, that's really the only real way to get the job done... unless you're a paparazzi, LOL!
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  #16  
Old 08-09-2006, 03:06 PM
jinju jinju is offline
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Default Re: Why so few people shots from N America and Europe?

Or a "professional" ;)
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  #17  
Old 08-14-2006, 03:16 PM
oldmanlincoln oldmanlincoln is offline
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Default Re: Why so few people shots from N America and Europe?

I read this entire thread and found no one mentioned a "model release." Then I wondered why. There must be a reason to take the portrait in the first place. I mean what are you going to do with it? If you stick it on Trek Earth or somewhere else you should have a valid model release for the person in the portrait. I would at least want to know what you planned to do with any portrait you take of me and if I object you shouldn't take it. I suspect some people come off as a grinning idiot of some kind and their intention is smeared all over their faces.

I don't know a single professional photographer who does not use a model release.

I spent three years in Japan, in Sendai-shi, and took thousands of photographs and never once had a person snarl at me or refuse to pose. Why do you suppose that is? In fact, my photographs are housed in the City Museum of History and Folklore there.
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  #18  
Old 08-14-2006, 07:28 PM
kinginexile kinginexile is offline
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Default Re: Why so few people shots from N America and Europe?

we are not professional photographers, Abe, for the very vast majority. For now, this rule does not apply, and there is a lot of freedom from not making a living with photography, like choosing when, what and where we shoot.


I understand the model release thing, but i am amused it only concerns people who are able to make a claim, possibly sue, in 1st world countries. Do you think all these great, famous photographers get a model release while in Nepal, Ethiopia, and the hillsides of Thailand, Myanmar India, etc...
Should we scrap HCB's best work, as he never got a model release from his "decisive moment makers", it cast a shameful shadow on the profession...

H
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  #19  
Old 08-15-2006, 04:44 AM
jinju jinju is offline
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Default Re: Why so few people shots from N America and Europe?

Really? You think HCB gto model releases from everybody? Winogrand? You think so, really? Do you think every photojournalist gets a model release all the time? ALL the time? Get off your high horse.
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  #20  
Old 08-16-2006, 05:26 AM
cgrindahl cgrindahl is offline
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Default Re: Why so few people shots from N America and Europe?

There is no requirement to secure a model release if the person photographed is in the public domain and the image is not used for a commercial purpose. Relax folks and have fun!

To the larger question I recall my first trip outside the United States. I took a Greek freighter in 1969 from Brooklyn, New York to Pireaus, Greece, with a single stop in Tripoli, Libya. Years later, as a graduate student in architecture I was assigned a book called Personal Space that helped explain what I experienced in Tripoli. While Americans tend to experience personal space that extends perhaps three feet from their body, those in Libya experience a personal space that is almost internal. In America, if someone catches your gaze, they will typically turn away. In Tripoli, my gaze was met with a penetrating stare. I learned that in some cultures to experience another person is to be close enough to smell their body odor, while those of us in the West do everything we can to extinguish any personal odor lest we offend those around us.

I'm a student of Buddhism and Hinduism so I have a deep appreciation of the openness one experiences in the faces of folks photographed in Asia and Southeast Asia. Yes, the setting is exotic, the colors often brilliant, but it is the open gaze of folks peering toward the camera that I find mesmerizing. Frankly, the stare of a frazzled suburbanite rushing through life I find both agitating and uninteresting. I do my best to find worhty subjects and have posted a few images of men, women and children out and about, but I've yet to meet anyone who offered me the kind of gaze I find regularly in photos from those who work in Asia.

We're accustomed to having our privacy respected, certainly so when a stranger appears with camera in hand. I've found that the best way to get photos of people is to be open about the presence of my camera and to stay in one place long enough that those around me begin to relax as I randomly shoot. Of course, that won't always satisfy everyone, like the mother who approached me to ask if I'd taken a photo of her daughter. I said I probably had since I was shooting everyone and everything in the area. To satisfy her I cycled through my photos and when I found a rather innocuous photo of her daughter I deleted it. One of the hazards of taking photos in the United States!
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