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  #11  
Old 08-12-2007, 12:25 AM
kinginexile kinginexile is offline
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Default Re: Stolen images on TE

we understand it's true, i think Henk meant bringing this on the forum in the manner you did, is gossip. This is just flying over our head, we have no idea about the picture, no idea about whom, etc.... For the sake of privacy, that's understandable, but then resolve it privately as well.

As to warn people that theft may lead to pursuits, there is no need to mention examples we have no idea about. IMO.
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  #12  
Old 08-12-2007, 05:36 AM
Darren Darren is offline
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Join Date: Mar 2003
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Default Re: Stolen images on TE

It sucks that you have had them stolen, there is no doubt about that. However, you have weakened your case greatly IMO by in turn posting the CD covers on your flickr account; I am not a lawyer, but my guess is that what you are now doing is on very shakey ground. Stuff like this should be dealt with privately and dealing with it like you have has probably reduced how much they might owe you greatly. It might feel good to "out" the guilty party, but in the end I really doubt it has helped you at all.

Now, anytime we post anything on the net, we are putting ourselves at risk. However, with the negative comes a positive. I have made a number of image sales because of TE and those sales most certainly would not have come without the risk of posting in the first place. I have more money in my bank account now because of TE, even though some of my photos have been used illicitely too. When they have been used, a simple email has taken care of things for the most part. Unless you are a highly in demand stock photographer for whom exclusivity is paramount, I doubt that you are better off financially or even emotionally by not posting your photos. Those who are using them, must like your photos, for an amateur even that might be a positive.

I guess I just don't understand why people get so up in arms when their photos are used without permission. Usually, it is either easy enough to have them removed and sometimes we benefit financially too. In pulling all images, all we are doing is relegating the photos to a virtual shoe box under the bed. I can't understand how that is good.
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  #13  
Old 08-12-2007, 06:07 AM
Retagger Retagger is offline
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Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 81
Default To Darren...

You stated, "I guess I just don't understand why people get so up in arms when their photos are used without permission."

Are you for real?? It is called THEFT. Is theft ok with you?

I am on solid ground because what I have posted is the truth... I chose to make this public because this person has stolen EVERY photo on the music cds, many from different photographers from Treklens.

As far as me not getting what I am owed - I was paid my asking rate. That is all that I wanted.

I still cannot believe that THEFT is ok in your eyes...
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  #14  
Old 08-12-2007, 06:33 AM
Darren Darren is offline
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Join Date: Mar 2003
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Default Re: To Darren...

I never said theft is OK in my eyes, you are intentionally misreading what I have said. you got what you wanted, your asking rate, which means you have come out ahead financially, yet you are still pulling your photos from the net and I just don't understand that at all. First of all, stealing images is NOT the same as stealing money or hard goods. You are not hurt by the theft of your images. Your family can still eat, you can still go on with your life. In fact, were you not to know, your life wouldn't be changed whatsoever. Theft of money or hard goods is a different thing.

Now, in a fit of righteous fury, you have pulled your images from the net completely. What benefit has that given you? None that I can think of at all. People, including friends and strangers won't be able to see small vignettes of your life. You have removed the chance of profitting financially and in other ways from your photos and you have lessened your presence in cyberspace. Please tell me where you have benefitted from what you have done. I just can't see it at all. All I have seen is a loss for you. A loss stemming from where you were wronged, no doubt, but not where you were really harmed.

All you are doing is living in a culture of fear. You are scared that someone might use what is yours, even when it doesn't physically or financially hurt you and it only hurts you emotionally if you let it. How is letting fear control what you do a benefit to you at all? One might see a parallel in this certain acts put into place by govt's who have very successfully worked people's fear to the gov'ts benefit.

You owe me an apology though. Nowhere have I said that THEFT is OK in my eyes. That is insulting and only shows that you didn't read what I wrote. I said that while it sucks (my words), you are not hurt by it and you have in fact benefitted from it. Even after benefitting, you have pulled your images. That is your choice, of course.

As for your legal solid ground; well I doubt you have contacted a lawyer about how solid.
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  #15  
Old 08-12-2007, 06:52 AM
Retagger Retagger is offline
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Default Re: To Darren...

You stated, "I guess I just don't understand why people get so up in arms when their photos are used without permission." What does this mean? I am not reading into anything, these are your words! People get "UP in Arms" because it is THEFT, which is illegal. Would it be ok if someone stole your photos and used them without your permission. Would you be "Up in Arms?" Based upon your last answer, it would be ok, right?

THEFT is THEFT no matter how you break it down. The reason that I have removed my photos is that theft of my photos will not occur again. FYI, I do have several professional websites that I do sell my photos (Boundless Gallery, Amazon, oldworldphoto etc.) as well as appearing in numerous art shows.

You also stated,

"Please tell me where you have benefitted from what you have done. I just can't see it at all. All I have seen is a loss for you. A loss stemming from where you were wronged, no doubt, but not where you were really harmed."

Wow...That doesn't ever deserve an answer.
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  #16  
Old 08-12-2007, 07:38 AM
Darren Darren is offline
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Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 854
Default Re: To Darren...

Are you reading what I am writing David? It really doesn't seem so.

First of all, and I mentioned it already, yes I have had my photos used wrongly in the past. In a couple of the cases, an email had them taken down and in another I was paid for their use. In the end, I am ahead because of it, so I am not all that upset. You have made very sure that you will never again benefit from the use of your images. That is fine too, even though I think it is a foolish thing to do. I am not condoning theft, this for the third time. Something else I don't condone is living in fear and removing possible good things in life because of that fear. That is very simply what you are doing. As I said before, and as you carefully avoided responding too, you are not hurt by the theft that occured. You really aren't. You might be inconvenienced, but not really hurt. Now, if I were to take money or physical goods from you, that would be a real hurt. It is amazing to me that you can't see the difference.

Theft might be theft legally, but in how it affects us different thefts are very different. If you think that you are as hurt from image theft as from financial theft, then I most certainly don't want you as my accountant. Theft of money or hard goods means that there will be things I can't do, ways I can't provide for my family and our future. Theft of an image has no effect on that at all, unless I count on photography for my complete livelihood. Again, if you didn't find out about the CDs, your life would have gone on exactly the same as though the theft didn't occur. Now, how can you say that you are harmed in the same way as if you lost money? You certainly know that you can't say it.

As for your last sentence; well you say that it doesn't deserve an answer. Very honestly, I believe that it is not that it doesn't deserve and answer, but that you don't have an answer for it. In what way has removing your images benefitted you? It might have made you feel better and it might have given you the opportunity to bellow in righteous rage about how you have been wrong, but I really don't see the benefit. I do see losses because of your actions though. Again, you have guaranteed that you won't ever again make money or contacts on TE because of your photos. You have given the cyber world less reason to care that you exist. You have removed yourself from what can be a social and enjoyable community. Those are all losses, both financial and social.


Your actions (removing your photos) have hurt you far, far worse IMO than the theft of your images ever has (or will unless you are working at the higher end of photography). In fact, as I mentioned before, you actually gained from the theft. All I see is you cutting your nose off to spite your face. How on Earth could I see a positive in that?

As I mentioned already, I hate that the west is living more and more in a culture of fear. Fear of terrorism is allowing governments to take away rights from us left and right. Because governments have been so adept in instillng this fear, people accept these losses. Removing your photos because of the fear of theft, especially when no real harm is done to you, is as bad as, or worse than, allowing our privacy to be invaded because of a fear of terrorism that has largely been built up by governments of the west in order to broaden their power. Actually, removing the photos is in some ways worse, as you are doing it to yourself, rather than the government doing it to you.

Again, I don't condone theft. I know you will try to once again say try to spin it as though I do. I just choose to live with less fear and be happier and better off for it.
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  #17  
Old 08-12-2007, 02:56 PM
Retagger Retagger is offline
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Default Re: To Darren...

Wow...That doesn't ever deserve an answer.
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  #18  
Old 08-13-2007, 12:01 AM
Polonaise Polonaise is offline
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Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Toronto
Posts: 2,882
Default Re: To Darren...

To Darren...
.................
I'm neither a psychiatrist nor a prophet, but I can foresee the end of that discussion with this colleague of ours…
You can't win, dear pal… Nobody can…!!!!
The information of this crime (stealing some postcard photos for a CD covers) is spread near and far all over the internet…
David is hurt… Very seriously hurt… Neurotically deeply deep hurt…
Your exceptionally logical writing could turn Joseph Stalin into Mother Teresa… It could convert myself into sunsets' adorer but… There is no way in hell that you are able to persuade our friend to act smartly and logically as well…
I wish him NEVER EVER to have greater tragedy in his life than this petty crap with few of his photos…

Allow me Darren, to copy the texts of your writings and present them in the psychology classes for my kids' college…
Some young folks can learn a lot from them…

Regards
g.
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  #19  
Old 08-13-2007, 12:01 AM
Polonaise Polonaise is offline
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Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Toronto
Posts: 2,882
Default Re: To Darren...

To Darren...
.................
I'm neither a psychiatrist nor a prophet, but I can foresee the end of that discussion with this colleague of ours…
You can't win, dear pal… Nobody can…!!!!
The information of this crime (stealing some postcard photos for a CD covers) is spread near and far all over the internet…
David is hurt… Very seriously hurt… Neurotically deeply deep hurt…
Your exceptionally logical writing could turn Joseph Stalin into Mother Teresa… It could convert myself into sunsets' adorer but… There is no way in hell that you are able to persuade our friend to act smartly and logically as well…
I wish him NEVER EVER to have greater tragedy in his life than this petty crap with few of his photos…

Allow me Darren, to copy the texts of your writings and present them in the psychology classes for my kids' college…
Some young folks can learn a lot from them…

Regards
g.
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  #20  
Old 08-14-2007, 12:30 AM
ScottHale ScottHale is offline
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Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 237
Default Re: Stolen images on TE

Possible solution?
If people are worried that their images are being ripped off why don't they put them on a stock photography site. If they are valuable enough to make money, they should be able to do it there. You can leave the small size version here that would only be good for 4x6's and 5x7's but stock agencies want the large size to sell to advertisers. I am sure in David's case the man wouldn't have bought them for the CD's but it could have made money and it wouldn't have been as critical to him. Stealing is still stealing BUT....if your making money off of it, you probably wouldn't be as apt to be offended.
I can see both sides of the argument but after reading ALL the threads, I tend to agree with Darren and it's not like I'm biased, I don't know any of the members who have posted in this forum.
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