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  #71  
Old 09-24-2007, 04:33 AM
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Just-A-Guy Just-A-Guy is offline
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Default The sultans of snapshots

I have came across a TE member, which of course I would not mention his name. His photos are pure examples of mere snapshots, the kind that thousands of tourists take every day at the world's famous attractions. No originality, no technical merit, no personal tone, no sharpness, no special POV. In other words, the kind of work that usually, for most members, go un-noticed. And yet, each one of his photos is rewarded with 80+ points. Forget the points, rewarded with 40+ critiques. The problem is these critiques are swimming in sugary syrup. Not a single one points to any weak point, any fault, any suggestion for improvement, anything that even closely resembles a geniuine critique. They are all empty praises, to the point of ridicule. Just one green smiley after the other.
There are wonderful photographers on TE, and hundreds of fantastic photos, many of them I save on my hard disc in a special folder, and then use them as a screen saver. But this lack of proportion really turns me down. And the problem of course, as other pointed out, is reciprocal points swapping. People feel that they must return a green smiley if they got one, out of courtesy. (some definitely use point swapping as a strategy but I don't think they are the majority. The result is that if you write 1000 critiques, you can be sure to get at least 1000 points. Usually the ratio is 1-3 points awarded for every critique written. I have not done the statistics, but this is based on observing many members here on TE. To me it suggests, that you can be a bad photographer with the lousiest photos, but if you are consistent and write 10,000 critiques you will eventually find yourself in the exclusive 10000+ club. Well, some of you will say, Guy- who are you to complain when you yourself have written only 252 critiques? You have not contributed to TE as nearly as much as the guy you mentioned in the beginning that has written 5000+ critiques. Well ,to that I can say, 10 geniuinely written critiques have a larger value in my eyes than 5000 sugar coated vain critiques.
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  #72  
Old 09-24-2007, 08:20 AM
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kevinos kevinos is offline
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Posts: 692
Default Re: The sultans of snapshots

Ah, yes Guy! You are making a point that has been made so often before. In fact it must be the most common complaint made on this forum. That, however, no reason for not making it again. It seems to be the reason why some of the best photographers and the best critiquers have left TE, or who have ceased to be active and, in some quarters, a sense of disillusionment sets in
.
The problem is that your happy snapshotter is not alone there are dozens of them all over TE, all getting swamped with smilies and sycophantic praise for their crappy snapshots. It is a cancer, eating away at the heart of TE, and no one has a cure for this disease (laudis-crapola). Sadly, these totally talentless members have no motivation to improve, because the deluge of similies that they receive every day, reassures them that they have already made it the Photographers’ Hall of Fame.

But it is not sufficient to write your full quota of critiques every day. Many excellent photographers and critiquers do that; they must be targeted to the right members (the ones proven to reply with and equal number of smilies for your pic). And the critiques must be vacuous and sycophantic, no mention of the real incompetence and banality of their work must ever be made.

Thus, the essential symptoms of ‘laudis crapola’ are
1) Critique every day.
2) Critique only the people known to reliably repay the points
3) Never make any real critique, juts sugary praise.
4) Praise every picture equally, regardless of its merit or lack of it...
5) Regularly check that your point debts are being paid promptly.

That way, you will rapidly progress to 10,000 points; will never need to improve your work and will slowly drag the usefulness and quality of TE down.
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  #73  
Old 09-24-2007, 01:31 PM
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Homerhomer Homerhomer is offline
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Posts: 1,192
Default Re: The sultans of snapshots

"Ah, yes Guy! You are making a point that has been made so often before. In fact it must be the most common complaint made on this forum. That, however, no reason for not making it again. It seems to be the reason why some of the best photographers and the best critiquers have left TE, or who have ceased to be active and, in some quarters, a sense of disillusionment sets in"

unfortunately you are 100% correct, add to this the fact that the site is absolutely stagnant, dated and actually degressing, and the ownership (at least the previous one, the current one is too new to pass on a judgement), has been very stubborn in not implementing any usefull improvements, the results are what they are, the most valuable members are either leaving (list is very long) or their participation has or will decrease. But who ever said the success of this site is measured in quality of images presented, just like the junk yard may be more succesfull then jewellery store, this site may be doing much better with the volume of junk without paying any attention to some gems. As long as there is enough happy pointomers and few others who may have been lucky enough to find a tight group of friends and don't really pay any attention to the rest of the site, all is good.
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  #74  
Old 09-24-2007, 01:52 PM
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aofl aofl is offline
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Default Re: Just an observation & PLEASE- NO POINTS...

when I initiated myself in this site i was waiting much more. When a friend spoke to me of it, thought that the photos would be appreciated by specialists who would make "photographic critic" which could help us to improve and dominate one of ours hobies. In the truth this does not happen of all. I have made some tests and I verified exactly that the "bigger part" of the times the photo is analysed according to personal point of view and for the description. Some being highly manipulated, they like and they vote! I myself already made it to test and I can say you that an adulterated nastiness photo got good punctuation while technical "almost perfect others" had been without votes! this is not fair!. I will continue to send photos just for fun and to see the knowledge of certain critics!!!.
All the best
Armando
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  #75  
Old 09-24-2007, 02:17 PM
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lukie lukie is offline
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Posts: 659
Default Re: Just an observation & PLEASE- NO POINTS...

You are right, Armando.
Even worse : some photographers get on each picture an amount of points (also on their "bad" pictures). In the few years I'm on TE I also see that photographers with good shots are getting worse... I mean that their shots don't have the quality and so as their former shots.
We can write this thousand times but there will be always "so called" specialists and "good" photographers (they think they are) and these people make this site so sick...
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  #76  
Old 09-24-2007, 04:47 PM
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VeeJayCee VeeJayCee is offline
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Posts: 154
Default Re: Just an observation & PLEASE- NO POINTS...

I agree wholeheartedly with your points Dan. Please see my intro. I also agree with those who say that many members who are able to take a good image often post poor images. These members devalue their own efforts by posting 2nd and 3rd rate images simply because they have run out of 1st class images. I often don't post for days or weeks simply because I have only images which may be considered good by some but are simply not up to my own standard. When, on the odd occasion I have done so, I have been justly castigated for posting below par pictures. If one doesn't have a good image, then don't post. We don't have to post and the time might be better spent commenting (in itself, a good way to learn). All comments should be honest and offer helpful suggestions for improvement where possible. These comments should be accepted as such even if the points made are not agreed with. We all have something to learn from others - even a rank beginner has a valid point of view. To make approving comments where they are not deserved does not help the photographer as is evident from those who never improve. We are not or should not be "A mutual congratulation society".
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  #77  
Old 09-24-2007, 06:49 PM
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kinginexile kinginexile is offline
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Default Re: The sultans of snapshots

Yeah, and because of these sultans of snapshots, TE is in ......DIRE STRAITS!!!!!

:-)))))))))))))
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  #78  
Old 09-24-2007, 07:00 PM
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kinginexile kinginexile is offline
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Posts: 1,537
Default Re: The sultans of snapshots

why not make some kind of "civil obedience". making a point of lauding one of these photos and members, with true obsequisity, so as to smear their "faces" into that sugary smyleyness. We certainly know who they are, and maybe with a little chance, they'd get dysentery from all that sugar, and get the point (well, you know whatta mean). 250pts for the next Angkor Wat postcard, the next silly beach scene from samui, etc.... again and again, that's the goal! We can win. UniTEd, the people shall never be defeaTED!
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  #79  
Old 09-24-2007, 09:32 PM
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abanibi abanibi is offline
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Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 396
Default Re: The sultans of snapshots

NOW I see! Hahahaha! I wasn't aware of some of these extreme examples... I don't know if more sugar would provoke a shock; most likely, it will be just one more drop in the ocean of lauding.
But anyway thanks for this lesson :-)
Cheers!
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  #80  
Old 09-25-2007, 05:48 PM
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Davids Davids is offline
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Posts: 585
Default sugar :)

exelent proposal,
I like you POV,
goooood detail, unbelievable!!!!!
incredibly well seen :)
hope to hear much, much more from you,

salut!!!
Davids

-this feels sooooooo good :)))))
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